Over the weekend, Al Jazeera English released the latest episode of their hit series Head to Head. Rather than hosting an audience and expert panel at the United Kingdom’s Oxford Union, the show’s host, Mehdi Hasan, traveled across the Atlantic to challenge retired Lieutenant General Michael T. Flynn in a special one-on-one episode. Hasan probed the recently retired General on a range of topics pertaining to the rise of ISIL, the Global War on Terror, torture, and the nuclear negotiations with Iran.
Prior to leading the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s top military intelligence unity, Lt. Gen. Flynn was a commander of the Joint Special Operations Command, the secretive unit responsible for America’s most sensitive black operations (including, most famously, the operation that killed Osama Bin Laden in 2011). Since retiring, Flynn has stepped into the spotlight to discuss his views on various national security matters currently concerning the United States.
Below are a couple highlights of exchanges from this hard-hitting interview with one of America’s top figures in military intelligence.
ON IRAQ INVASION AND OCCUPATION
Hasan: Isn’t it the case, General, that there would be no ISIL today in Iraq if the U.S. hadn’t invaded and occupied Iraq in 2003?
Flynn: Yeah, I think that looking back there were a number of strategic errors that were made… There’s no doubt. I mean, history will not be kind to the decisions that were made, certainly in 2003. Going into Iraq - definitely not.
ON ESTABLISHMENT OF ISIL
Hasan: You are on record as saying that the handling of Syria by this administration has been a mistake. Many people would argue that the U.S. actually saw the rise of ISIL coming and turned a blind eye or even encouraged it as a counterpoint to Assad. In a secret analysis by the agency you ran, the Defense Intelligence Agency in August 2012 said, and I quote, ‘There is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want in order to isolate the Syrian regime.' The U.S. saw the ISIL caliphate coming and did nothing… I took the liberty of printing out this document, this is the memo that I quoted from. Did you see this document in 2012? Did this come across your table?
Flynn: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, I paid very close attention to all those. Sure did.
Hasan: Okay, so when you saw this did you not pick up a phone and say, ‘What on Earth are we doing supporting these Syrian rebels?'
ON US ROLE IN FACILITATING RISE OF ISIS
Hasan: In 2012, your agency was saying, quote, 'The Salafists, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Al Qaeda in Iraq are the major forces driving the insurgency in Syria.' In 2012, the U.S. was helping coordinate arms transfers to those same groups. Why did you not stop that if you’re worried about the rise of 'Islamic Extremism?'
Flynn: I mean, I hate to say it’s not my job, but my job was to ensure that the accuracy of our intelligence that was being presented was as good as it could be, and I will tell you that it goes before 2012. I mean, when we were in Iraq and we still had decisions to be made before there was a decision to pull out of Iraq in 2011, I mean it was very clear what we were going to face. Very clear what we were going to face.
ON PRESIDENT OBAMA’S FOREIGN POLICY
Hasan: You are basically saying that even in government at the time you knew these groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it, but who wasn’t listening?
Flynn: I think the administration.
Hasan: So the administration turned a blind eye to your analysis?
Flynn: I don’t know that they turned a blind eye, I think it was a decision. I think it was a willful decision.
Hasan: A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood?
Flynn: It was a willful decision to do what they’re doing.
ON TORTURE AND IMPUNITY
Flynn: There were individuals in Iraq and in Afghanistan that came under investigation and many were found – those investigations were found substantiated and those individuals were punished.
Hasan: But doesn’t U.S. law and international law say that if you commit torture you should be prosecuted in a court of law, you don’t just get a slap on the wrist.
Flynn: Absolutely.
Hasan: So why haven’t more people been prosecuted in a court?
Flynn: Well, you have to… I hope that as more and more information comes out that people are held accountable.
Hasan: But General, you have that information - in your head, presumably. You went there and you shut it down.
Flynn: Yeah, I know the ones that I was aware of, which was a few. Quite a few.
ON DRONES
Flynn: When you drop a bomb from a drone, you are going to cause more damage than you’re going to cause good… There are some that that’s okay for, but I think as an overarching strategy it is a failed strategy.
ON GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR
Flynn: We have invested in more conflict instead of actually investing in solutions… We invest in more drones, we invest in more bombs, we invest in more weapons, we invest in more ammunition, we invest in more guys to go out and kill more guys- that’s investing in conflict… If you go back and you look at 2004 and you fast forward to 2014… the number of terrorists our state department designates as terrorist groups have doubled, so something is wrong with our and our strategy.
These are only a few of the highlights from Mehdi Hasan's conversation with retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn. Watch the whole episode below, or check out older episodes of the hit show by clicking here.
