This interview was conducted via phone in the fall of 2015, but the questions and responses remain relevant, and will be so for the foreseeable future.
The Representative: Walter Jones has represented North Carolina's third congressional district since 1995. A Republican, Jones sits on the Armed Services Committee, and has been a staunch opponent of foreign intervention after having initially supported the Iraq war. Often independently-minded, Jones was one of just four Republicans in the House to vote against Paul Ryan's budget in 2012, after which Jones was removed from the Financial Services Committee by the party's leadership. He is a member of the House Liberty Caucus, which is comprised of libertarian-leaning representatives who are staunch advocates of small government.
Odyssey: What actions have you taken in Congress or causes have you championed to improve the lives of college students and recent graduates in your district?
Rep. Walter Jones: One of my biggest concerns has been that many of our graduates are not able to find jobs that are paying well enough to – for the work that they’re doing because we have too long sent jobs overseas to foreign countries and the economy of our country is not as strong as it needs to be. I’m also concerned that college students – many coming out of college – have loans that they needed to have to finish college, and some of the interest rates are too high in my opinion, so there are a number of areas that I’m trying to help in a bipartisan way to make sure that the loans, that the rates, are fair to the students and not put them in debt for most of their adult life.
Odyssey: Increases in college tuition has been outpacing inflation for a few decades, and now the amount of student loan debt has surpassed the amount of credit card debt held by all Americans. What specifically can congress do to reign in these costs, if anything?
Rep. Jones: Well, I [cosponsored] the bill... to make sure that credit card bills were simple and could clearly be understood, but specifically what we need to do is to rebuild this economy. I don’t think it’s as strong as it needs to be. We need a president that, in my humble opinion, needs to start talking about rebuilding America instead of rebuilding the rest of the world. I’m opposed to sending all this money over to Afghanistan – billions and billions of dollars. Article recently in the Washington Post quoting John Sopko who’s the Inspector General for Afghan reconstruction, that almost half the money that we send over there is wasted. I’m ready to spend some of that money here in America to rebuild Americans and bring some good jobs to the American people.
Odyssey: Beyond college costs, which three political issues affecting 18 to 30-year-olds do you think aren’t being talked about enough?
Rep. Jones: Well I think the income level of that age group--that goes back to what I was trying to say a while ago. We’re not having the good paying jobs that we need to have for people coming out of college, and there are a number of reasons for that fight that I just mentioned. And some of this is, again, because we need to start rebuilding the economy of this country and I agree with Donald Trump on this: our country is not as strong as it needs to be. There are a number of factors that would make me make that statement, but until you have that kind of leadership, and I think it starts with the White House, you gotta have somebody who is committed to rebuilding the economy of America. And it might take time, but at least you’re going down the right road. Instead of just talking about it, you’ve started down the road. That’s what I think needs to happen.
Odyssey: Is that an endorsement of Donald Trump?
Rep. Jones: Well I’m a Rand Paul supporter. I don’t know if Rand’s going to be able to pick up the support that he needs, but I like what Donald Trump is saying in that respect of rebuilding America. But I am a Rand Paul supporter so I want you to know, I am until he pulls out.
Odyssey: Congress has a notoriously low approval rating among Americans regardless of the party in control. Why do you think the branch that’s supposed to represent the people thought of so poorly by them?
Rep. Jones: Well, I’ll tell you, Washington—I carry around a book that’s called "Extortion." It’s by Peter Schweizer, and I read parts of this. I will read one thing very quickly – they’re very critical of the process here in Washington, whether you be a democrat or republican, of everything up here’s about money.
I’ll read you one quick statement off the back of the book. John Boehner. And it says “Tollbooth: How the Speaker of the House extracts money by soliciting political donations before he will hold crucial votes on the House floor.” That’s what wrong with Washington. That’s why Donald Trump is appealing to a lot of American people, because he said, "I don’t need anybody to finance my campaign." And the American people know that, since Citizens United, Mike, what has happened is that the issue of raising money has gotten more intense than ever before. Both parties.
Odyssey: What is one specific policy issue on which you’ve bucked your party’s consensus?
Rep. Jones: Well, I have been – along with [Massachusetts congressman] Jim McGovern – speaking about our foreign policy, whether it be a Democrat or Republican. And I would go back to my party now – Republican – I think it’s just absolutely ridiculous that we continue to spend money. Again, I go back to Afghanistan; in these foreign countries where we have very little and, in some cases, no accountability of the tax payer’s money, and we keep spending and spending and spending, and we are going to have – today, that you’re interviewing me – we’re going to have the Congress report on the National Defense Authorization Act that has been negotiated with the Senate leadership and the House leadership. The Senate has to pass it, then the Senate does, and I will vote no on it because I know that there are billions and billions and billions of dollars brought overseas, as I said earlier, with no accountability and I’m just tired of it. The American people can’t afford it. And, I mean, when Bill Clinton left office in 2000, we were $5.6 trillion in debt. You and I, doing this interview [now], our debt is $18.3 trillion. We have tripled the debt of this country in 15 years. How much further can we go before we collapse? I don’t know.
Odyssey: In your current position – and I think I might know what you’ll say on this, but I’m not sure – in your current position, which vote do you most regret making and why?
Rep. Jones: Iraq war. I think we were manipulated with lies and deceit by the Bush administration. I think that’s been proven. I felt this from many CIA [employees], and Army generals, Marine generals, that would say that we had no business going into Iraq. The intelligence was manufactured by the Bush administration. I’ve signed over 11,000 letters for families from the Iraq war and some from the Afghan war and I’ve apologized to God many, many times for my mistake of buying these lies. And neither George W. Bush nor [Dick] Cheney has ever apologized for the Iraq war. Neither one of them.
And worse, Cheney keeps popping up on the Sunday morning talk shows saying how right he was. He doesn’t even admit – I mean, we have total chaos in Iraq because we took out Saddam Hussein. Now I’m going to put the blame of this on Obama now. We have total chaos in Libya because we took out Gaddafi. Some of these countries, whether we like it or not, need dictators. If they want to take them out, meaning the people within the country, let them do it, but don’t send American troops over there to do it for them.
Odyssey: Since 1965, who was the best president not named Ronald Reagan, and why? [The question was asked this way to remove the most likely choice for the Republican congressman. Democrats Odyssey interviewed were asked the same question, excepting Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.]
Rep. Jones: I’m going to say Bill Clinton, even though I voted to impeach him. When you look at the economy – and I will give my party some credit – when Bill Clinton was president we [Republicans] became the majority in the House and the Senate in 1995. Thanks to Erskine Bowles, who was the chief of staff to Bill Clinton, we got more good things done for this country, and I’ve got to share that credit with Bill Clinton. And I would hope he would share it with the Republican House and Senate. So I would say, in my time, the best president for the economy of this country has been Bill Clinton.
Odyssey: Which interest group or lobby has the most undue influence on Capitol Hill and why?
Rep. Jones: Oh lord. There’s so many of them. I mean, you got the special interests that want to empower the Democrats to be the majority, you got special interests that want to empower the Republicans to be the majority, so that – as the book "Extortion" says – both parties know how to play the game. They know how to take care of their friends and how to punish their enemies, and I’m on a bill with [Maryland congressman] John Sarbanes, he’s a Democrat from Maryland who created an alternative, it’s called We The People, which will never be heard, never be heard, unless we have a scandal.... Since I’m on [the Committee on] Armed Services, I’d probably say the military industrial complex as a whole has a lot of influence up here.
Odyssey: The gap between rich and poor continues to get bigger. What statistical indicators do you use to analyze this, and what is your solution?
Rep. Jones: I checked this with the U.S. Treasury and probably about four or five months ago, I heard -- and I wanted to verify -- that roughly 77 million Americans are working, making an average of about $29,000 a year. We need to create better jobs. I think we have in place the education systems – I’m talking about community colleges and four-year colleges – I think we have the education systems in place. What we don’t have is good paying jobs for people who graduate, and I hope with the new administration that we will get a president who will make that one of his number one commitments during the campaign is, "If I get elected to be the president, I’ll do everything I can to rebuild the economy of America and make sure that people who are working hard get paid fairly."
Odyssey: What does the word "equality" mean to you, and how do we achieve that as a country?
Rep. Jones: Well, being a man of faith, I think again everybody’s equal in the eyes of God. There’s no question about that in my mind. But I think that opportunity – and that starts with education. Education should lead to opportunity – and if the opportunity’s not there, then you’re not going to have equality because people who are working hard making $29,000 a year cannot compete in that state whatever the average income is. And the larger states it’s certainly higher than $29,000 a year.
Odyssey: Finally, if you could have a drink with any non-politician, dead or alive, who would it be and what would you drink?
Rep. Jones: Well I would say the Pope, because I’m a convert to Catholicism. Most Catholics do drink wine.
