While American cultural voices grapple with the idea of the public intellectual and its viability, it is arguable that the United States has never had such a tradition. The US government calls on policy specialists and partisan political thinkers to speak on their specific topic of expertise. Meanwhile, France has been sending TV philosopher, novelist, journalist, etc. Bernard-Henri Lèvy around the world to discuss international relations since the 1990s. For instance, Lèvy had a hand in determining French involvement in the Bosnian War, the War in Afghanistan, and the First Libyan Civil War. Lèvy also wears a tailored Dior jacket over a partially unbuttoned white shirt. It is notable that this unbuttoned white shirt would get him a dress code violation in most American high schools.

Lèvy is an icon in France. He is “accorded the kind of adulation in France that most countries reserve for their rock stars” according to The Guardian, and the man who has most set himself in opposition to Lèvy is Noël Godin. Godin’s cultural function in France is very limited, especially when compared to that of Lèvy—Godin throws pies at well-known people. He gained recognition with his pieing of Bill Gates in the 1980s, but the man Godin has dogged on and off for thirty years has been Bernard-Henri Lèvy.

The first pieing came in 1985 when Lèvy was but a young intellectual coming off the uproar over his L'Idéologie française. Lèvy had yet to hang out with future president Nicolas Sarkozy or claim that then President Mitterrand owed him a favor for his diplomatic work in Serbia . Lèvy’s immaturity most shows in this recording of the pieing in which he threatens to kick Godin’s head in.

Over time, though, Lèvy has learned to accept the pastry with grace. The most recent pieing is a fascinating glimpse into the stiff, distanced tango of Lèvy and Godin’s relationship.

A quick reconstruction of the scene: Lèvy never sees the woman running up behind him to pie him. Instead, he sees Godin stand up. The other man sitting at the panel is likely puzzled but shows no obvious emotional reaction to Godin’s disturbance. Lèvy does. He is shocked! He knows this man! And every time he sees him, he gets pied! Lèvy stands up and attempts to get away. He is then hit in the back of the head with a pie. Godin is satisfied. He keeps his fingers on his chin. He turns to show off his potbelly.

Godin’s subversion of the cultural establishment is the most basic kind. No special skills or intellectual rejoinders required. It is also immediately sympathetic in many ways. As Rousseau observed, the major problem with government is the unnatural elevation of one man over others. We all inevitably chafe under the rule of someone else. Godin’s pie to the face is our instinctual reaction to anyone who dares to tell us what to think about the veil (“an invitation to rape”) or the United States.

But because of these characteristics, Godin’s pie is also the most unproductive form of subversion. Instead of providing reason-based objections to Lèvy’s ideas or actions, Godin engages in a dogmatism. Smashing a pie in Lèvy’s face does not persuade you of something. If anything, it does the most poisonous thing possible—it reaffirms your pre-existing beliefs.

The recent presidential election has been a hard lesson in this realm. For all the New York Times op-eds and media endorsements in favor of Hillary Clinton, our president-elect is a former reality TV star with no prior experience in politics and some terrifying ideas about a national registry for Muslims and the use of torture. Our public discourse has been lopsided. For all the ideas and opinions out there, few were properly examined and engaged with. Too many of us have been smashing pies in each other’s faces with nothing to show for it except some likes on our all caps Facebook comments and a lot of whipped cream. It is easy to be Godin. It is even fun to be Godin. But rebuffing arguments with conspiratorial cries of bias and overarching, dismissive labels is only a maneuver to avoid serious consideration of others’ and our own stances. Calling Clinton supporters coddled and over-sensitive or Trump supporters racists disregards the legitimate reasons why some people may have supported one of them. This evasion is responsible for the disconnect between the media, partisan outlets, and various segments of the American people.

The most striking aspect of the 2015 pieing is the shock of recognition over Lèvy’s face as he sees Godin and his subsequent attempt to escape. This is a testimony to the longevity of their relationship. Lèvy has learned to expect nothing else from Godin. Godin will continue to throw pies at Lèvy, and Lèvy will continue to have pies thrown at him. This is an observation with alarming consequences for American politics. Without concerted efforts to counteract it, this pattern of discourse is ultimately seductive and easily becomes repetitive.